EP 53 | Rita Hester & The Murder That Started A Movement, Allston, Massachusetts

Chanelle Pickett and Rita Hester were murdered three years apart. Chantelle in 1995 in Watertown, Mass, and Rita Hester in 1998 in Allston. Both were brutal crimes. Neither of them got justice. The attitudes and the language around gay and transgender lifestyles were very different back then. How the media covered violence against transgender people was cruel, if they covered them all. As a result of the mistreatment they got even in death, their deaths were instrumental in the creation of the annual Transgender Day of Remembrance on November 20th.

Chanelle's murderer was prosecuted and used the Trans Panic Defense.
Rita Hester's murder is still unsolved. 

Mallery Jenna Robinson, transgender and HIV advocate and host of A Hateful Homicide podcast, joins me to talk about the violence transgender women face - then and now. We talk about the fight for justice for transgender victims, the urgent need for laws to protect the transgender community from hate crimes and the critical role empathy and compassion play in our society.

A Hateful Homicide with Mallery Jenna Robinson

Transgender Day of Remembrance is Nov 20

Resource Kit for Journalists

Crime of the Truest Kind
hosted by Anngelle Wood
Online CrimeoftheTruestKind.com
Follow @crimeofthetruestkind

#ritahester #transdayofremembrance #chanellepickett #ahatefulhomicide #TDOR #malleryjennarobinson #allston #massachusetts #watertown #homicide #unsolved 

Transcript

Anngelle Wood: 0:00

Well, hello, my name is Angelle Wood and this is Crime of Truest Kind. I must open the show with a great big thank you to everyone who made it out to our very first live crime night last week at Off Cabot in Beverly, Mass. It was incredible. You know. We did have some hiccups in the tech and we made it work. Thanks to those of you who stuck around, and we got to talk to one another for a little while. You told me some pretty amazing things, so thank you for that. You also told me you like the idea of true crime trivia, that that would be fun, so I'm working on that. And you said you liked the live case discussion. So I have more of those in the works too, and I will tell you as soon as I am able. But it was a great night. The holiday season is sneaking up on us. I did put a couple of new pieces of merch in the store Crime of the Truest Kind related and if you have a request for something, you can let me know. Shoot me an email crimeofthetruestkind@gmail. com. My name is Anngelle Wood.

Anngelle Wood: 1:26

This is a true crime, local history and storytelling podcast. I write about crimes, I set the scene, I connect story themes, I talk about the things that happen here in Massachusetts and New England. This episode is about violent crime, the LGBTQ plus community, transgender women, unsolved murder and the impact on the community. Listen with care. A nd always about where the events of the story take place. In episode 53, we are in Allston, part of Boston, where a brutal 1998 murder in a first floor apartment in a populated building in a crowded area remains unsolved. I will also share the story of Chanelle Pickett, who was murdered in 1995 in Watertown and later in the show I will speak to transgender advocate and host of a hateful homicide podcast, Mallery Jenna Robinson.

Anngelle Wood: 2:40

When I came to the city from college, from a not that small of an area in Southern New Hampshire, I was up for anything I knew. There was more for me to discover about the world and myself. The city is quieter in the summer months, but come late August into early September, that special time of year known as Allston Christmas, which has nothing to do with the actual Christian Christmas holiday of bows and bells and baby Jesuses and everything to do with the 150,000 or so students who make a mass influx into the city's neighborhoods for school. Allston is the neighborhood of Boston that is historically known as one of the more affordable, the more populated part of the city. For the college class, rents are cheaper, landlords largely unresponsive, and if you had a September 1 to September 1 lease or if you sublet from someone else, that meant you were hiking your stuff out at the same time as a bunch of other people Moving trucks line the narrow streets.

Anngelle Wood: 3:50

They are Storrowing. Discarded belongings are piled up along the sidewalks. Someone's trash becomes someone's treasure. Oftentimes, brand new stuff is laid out from what we have always called the rich kids, who just buy new stuff when they land at their next spot, maybe from Long Island. That all sounds pretty cool, right? Free like- new goods.

Anngelle Wood: 4:17

Well, let me tell you the story of the infamous bedbug infestation of, well, add any year here. In a piece in Boston magazine from 2016, Spencer Buell, who now writes for the Boston Globe, wrote free stuff like futons and end tables, offbeat paintings even, or record players or decorative rugs. Free stuff hauled out of ratty, overcrowded apartments and dumped on the curb to baste in the late summer humidity. What could go wrong? Well, exactly the same thing that has been going on for eons in Boston. Come fall, as bargain hunters look for inexpensive home furnishings Among the things discarded on move in day consequences be damned.

Anngelle Wood: 5:03

Bed bugs, the mattress dwelling bugs. Love allston christmas, unless you forget just how much of the city has been populated by these things. The globes mat was show up, put together a gross map using city data. Apparently I love data or data? I say the word differently every time. Bed bugs are such a phenomenon in Boston, right behind star owing. Second reference now you have to Google that for fun.

Anngelle Wood: 5:34

There's a full on offensive, former Boston Globe writer, matt Rochello, who went on to work as a spotlight reporter for the Boston Globe and won a 2021 Pulitzer Prize in investigative reporting. This is his hard hitting news on bed bugs. Matt created a map using city data for every formal bed bunk complaint that was made In the six years of data. At the time of his reporting, there were 1822 formal complaints from those afflicted. I have to wonder, though what do you do about a bed bug complaint? You can't arrest the freeloading creatures, I kid. Of course these types of things need to go to the board of health. There is a bed bug protocol. Each school should have one. The city of Boston has a handy PDF and massgov has a full page of directives, as does mass legalorg Working in radio?

Anngelle Wood: 6:33

We had a number of interns come through. I recall one in particular who worked on our morning show. They went to Emerson no be you, I don't remember. They were living in the Allston, brighton area. Anyway, an interesting person Most of the radio interns were. This one told the entire morning show crew that their nickname was Bed Bugs. Yeah, we recoiled a bit and didn't want them getting the coffee that day.

Anngelle Wood: 7:05

Boston with its many colleges and universities is a revolving door of fresh-faced students in those bedeveling bugs, be warned. Nothing else mattress. Boston is a city of neighborhoods. It's a big, small town. I've said that before. The city of Boston is represented by a collection of neighborhoods. Allston is one of those. Sometimes Allston/B righton. Boston's neighborhoods is bustling, crowded bus stops, full subway cars, no seats at the bar and long lines at the coffee shop.

Anngelle Wood: 7:48

The afternoon of November 28, 1998 would be a little quieter. It was the Saturday of Thanksgiving break and the throngs of students had mostly dispersed to their respective hometowns, and not only in Long Island. Although Rita Hester would usually go home too, this year she decided to stay and spend the holiday in Allston. Rita was 34, soon to be 35. Her birthday is November 30. And this year she would have celebrated her 60th birthday. What a party that would be. She was, as it goes, living her best life After all. It had vastly improved since moving to Boston from Hartford. She had her own place, a cat, a boa constructor, who I recall hearing one person say they knew Rita because she bought her snake's food at their store.

Anngelle Wood: 8:48

Growing up in Hartford, Connecticut, as one of five children, she was Rita from an early age no quotes. Her sister, Diana, told NBC News in the story from July 2020 that there was never a time in her life when she wasn't Rita Rita in quotes. Rita Rita in quotes in this piece. Diana could never place a particular coming out trans moment for her. They seemed to just know her entire family embraced her transition. Rita did not get the same acceptance in her hometown of Hartford, and Diana Hester said in Hartford people got assaulted and they got hurt. In the 1980s there was no conversation about being gay. People were shunned and misunderstood and worse. There was definitely no conversation about being transgender, what that was or what it meant, and a lot of horrible things were said and done to people like Rita.

Anngelle Wood: 9:54

Rita had a big personality and with that came many friends. If you hear anyone refer to her, she was pure joy to be around, her energy. Reverend Irene Monroe described her as a boulliant, glamorous, a sister, diva, friend, with attitude, sassiness and style. That. She was tall, statuistic, six feet two inches, captivating really, and people knew who she was. I have friends who knew Rita and it's all the same, how much fun she was to be around, how much energy she had. I was getting into the rock scene at the time, from about 1997 on, and if I had met Rita I would have remembered her. After she met people in Boston she began to make the hour and a half trip by bus or car, three hours by train to come up for visits. Her circle of friends began to grow and sometime in her 20s she made the move to Boston, feeling hopeful that she could transition more freely. Rita found comfort in community and she became a part of the city's vibrant rock scene.

Anngelle Wood: 11:14

Boston in the 80s and 90s. Well, those were the days. The rat in Kimmore Square in Boston proper was both famous and infamous. It's long gone today In Alston, where Rita would find a place to fit in, alston was named after the artist and poet Washington Alston, a Harvard and Royal Academy of Arts educated Alston. He is said to be the first important American romantic painter In Alston to live with seven other roommates in a beat up house off Brighton Ave. Well, that is a rite of passage. Alston Rock City, the heartbeat of the music seen for a very long time, where artist life and student life converge, all of the many wonderful things that makes Alston Alston the Kells long gone. But anyone who has come through, maybe BU or BC, you got to chuck off that one Mainstay of the neighborhood, o'brien's Pub, in business since 1984 and still there today.

Anngelle Wood: 12:29

Great Scott down the street on Kamav became a beloved venue, only to be kicked out by the landlord during COVID New site TBD. Carl Bonn-Ratties was the spot Dive bar, turn rock and roll club, but always a dive bar. Loads of bands would eventually play there, abel Harris, a favorite of the club. He was shot and killed in 1987. I covered his story in episode 20 with the club's former manager, david G. Bonn-ratties became the poorly named Melody Lounge. And when I say poorly names, I mean this it was named for where the deadliest nightclub fire in history started, coconut Grove on November 28th 1942, that resulted in the deaths of 492 people. Why would you name a club? After that, it then became local 186, named for its address, 186 Harvard Ave, then Wonder Bar, now it is some turd burger names, han. I honestly cannot tell you what it is. Vip table service, dj booth girls stand in line in the freezing cold without coats on place. I know this. I'm not their demo. Rita was a fixture in her neighborhood straight bars An unlikely place for a black trans woman.

Anngelle Wood: 14:02

Not really no. The legend of Bonn-Ratties' sordid history lives on, and how I love to hear the stories about oasis and back alley fights. Rita was also a familiar face among the city's gay bars. She was as comfortable performing with drag queens as she was jumping on stage with Nashville Pussy at a rock show. Rita was not afraid to be seen. Someone commented on a Facebook thread and it said no night was complete without seeing her. Such a loss. Rita was a regular at Jock's Cabaret oh, and she could put on a show.

Anngelle Wood: 14:44

It's Boston's iconic gay bar in Bay Village, the oldest show bar in all of Massachusetts. It opened in 1938 and Jock's became a gay bar in the mid-1940s. It has survived the rapid decline of brick and mortar gay clubs. Of course there's a lot of action online via apps and so on and there are a lot of theme nights in different venues around town. But there were a good amount of clubs in the 1990s, one I tried like hell to remember. Bear with me as I toss this one out to some locals or former locals who might be listening. It was in Bay Village, I believe, kind of fancy like a small theater or a ballroom I narrated down to maybe the loft chaps. This was all with the help of some friends on Facebook, so please message me if you know what club I am talking about. Definitely back bay Bay Village area. That's where Club Cafe is, opened

Anngelle Wood: 15:52

since the early 80s. Machine is gone. Ramrod, Fritz, Paradise, the Cambridge one, g one. Playland, was wiped out. Gone the way of the combat zone. Jacques Cabaret, to their great credit, is still standing. Drag and karaoke, sure, but where are the sloppy drunk interrupters who want to Instagram everything for their hashtag misses, hashtag bride to be hope chest gonna Di ck's Last Resort closed. RIP Margarita buckets and actual penises drawn on your hat.

Anngelle Wood: 16:34

Jacques is like an old friend. And people on staff then spoke of Rita, including a bartender named Johnny Frrda who had been a bartender there since 1973. He remembered her well. He said she was a happy person, she would get up and dance, she was out for good times. There was also cause for worry that their beautiful, fearless friend could find trouble in straight bars. They had every reason for concern.

Anngelle Wood: 17:01

Three years earlier, a young Black trans woman named Chanelle Pickett was killed on November 20th 1995. Chanelle Pickett, a 23- year- old Black transgender woman, was killed brutally. She was found in the bedroom of a Water town man who well, we'll get to him. Much had changed for Chanelle in the year leading up to her death. Chanelle and her twin sister, Gabrielle, both lived as transgender women and had so from a very young age. Sometime in the early 1990s they appeared on the Jenny Jones TV show. They were also on Geraldo, I learned, and of course they were. Daytime talk shows predated YouTube and that's where you had to go to watch people being exploited for ratings. Now people are exploited for clicks and views. F rom upstate New York, t he Pickett sisters were abandoned by their mother after she learned they were different in quotes. That word grandmother speaks softly to each other when they talk about other people's kids over Gin Rummy.

Anngelle Wood: 18:04

The sisters moved to the Boston area and lived in Chelsea. Both Chanel and Gabrielle had steady jobs. They were working for Nynex, the telephone company that served five New England states, excluding Connecticut and add New York, supporting themselves, living a regular life. That was until someone decided to out them at work. According to Gabrielle, in early 1995, the sisters were working at Nynex in the sales department in Marlboro, Massachusetts. Then they were both transferred to a Brain tree sales office.

Anngelle Wood: 18:41

After one month Chanelle switched to the MIS department, reporting to a manager named Deborah Shea. Shortly after starting in that new department, she got the vibe that her new supervisor didn't like her and she began to feel harassed. Chanelle and Gabrielle talked about it and although she was taking some hateful abuse, Chanelle really wanted to work in MIS, so she tried to roll with it. But not long after she was told from a friend at work that it was her manager, Shea, who was spreading word that Chanelle was a pre-op transsexual. This is from a site called Gender Talk, by the way. We must remember that the language around gender issues was very different. Then Chanelle spoke with Shea's supervisor, Jane Tessier, about the situation. Tessier was equally as unsympathetic and sided with the supervisor lady. The harassment continued in the gossip mill built and about six weeks after the conversation with Tessier, Chanelle was fired. Gabrielle left the company one month later.

Anngelle Wood: 19:47

This is why we have H. R., people. I had a manager say to me once that work is not a safe space. I bet a man told her that and she was bad at her job, even though she thought she was really good at it. Former manager, I quit. They were scared, humiliated, emotionally exhausted and running out of money. Finding new work became even more difficult. They faced a great deal of discrimination since they were outed by their prior employer and all too familiar story in the trans community.

Anngelle Wood: 20:21

She was normal, easily passing as a woman important for those with real transphobia. She did try the proper channels for help at her job, but she was ignored. Chanelle tried legitimate ways to earn a living. She ran out of options for survival and hopelessness set in. It was enough for her to take risks she normally would not have On their own, with no family support. The descent into poverty was swift.

Anngelle Wood: 20:48

Many trans folks in similar situations turn to sex work the oldest profession, they say. But our sexuality is a currency we have. There is incredible vulnerability. Losing her job was evidence that she was not safe. There were no protections for her and utter heartbreak would follow. Violence against the gay and transgender communities was escalating Both nationwide and in Boston. Before Chanelle died, the language was very different. Most headlines included terms like transvestite and transsexual and worse, the term pre-up shows up a lot. Murdered trans folks were also referred to as it so dehumanizing. So what happened to Chanelle?

Anngelle Wood: 21:36

On November 19th, Chanelle and her sister met a man named William C Palmer. I said his name because it is important for me to let people know that he is responsible for what happened to Chanelle. The sisters met him at the Playland Cafe. I mentioned it already. It was a popular club at the time, the oldest gay bar in the city. Then it opened in 1937 and closed in 1998.

Anngelle Wood: 22:04

Playland was known to have a lot of transgender patrons. You did not go there not knowing you were where you were, you dig. And Palmer was a Playland and jocks regular. The trans women in the community knew him. He dated trans women. Palmer was 35 and working as a computer programmer at Unisys. There was one in Cambridge, I found out, but they no longer operate in Massachusetts. He shared an apartment with roommates in Watertown. On the 19th of November the three of them left Playland and went to the sisters place in Chelsea where they drank and did a little coke that Palmer had gotten at Playland earlier that evening. I adventure a guess that Palmer had motives to get with the two women Just a hunch. Chanelle and Palmer left and went to his place in Watertown. It was not a date.

Anngelle Wood: 23:00

I don't believe she was working. The account that I have read said that she may have liked the guy. So, if true, one of my theories is that his rage was so he didn't have to pay for sex. Well, that's out. So here's the earmuffs part of the show, the line from Old School where Vince Vaughn tells his kid to cover his ears because he's about to say something awful. Earmuff it for me, because she is not able to tell us. Only her killer could testify in court that he and Chanelle smoked crack at his apartment. Chanelle began to perform oral sex when then, and only then, he discovered that she was transgender and demanded she leave. Mm-hmm, that's his story. Chanelle flew into a cocaine- induced rage and began screaming, and he gave her a jab. His claim, then, is he went to sleep after smoking a bunch of coke, as one does, and when he woke up Chanelle was dead.

Anngelle Wood: 23:57

Palmer's roommates heard him come home sometime after 3 am on the morning of November 20th. They did not hear anything unusual until around 5 in the morning, when they were jolted awake by the sounds of a struggle and shouting. The sounds intensified with blood curlding screams, pounding on the wall. The roommates heard a voice become muffled and gradually diminished. Two roommates knocked on Palmer's door asking if everything was okay. Palmer told them in a very calm voice I've got a crazy bitch in here, but I got it under control. They tried to open the door but it was blocked and they were unable to see inside the room. Things quieted down and the roommates tried to go back to sleep Sleep? After all that? I s this, something that happens all the time. About four hours later, Palmer told the roommates "we've got a problem and he called his lawyer. Nobody made any move to check on this person in the room. Palmer wasn't able to see his lawyer until after lunchtime. Nobody checked on her. Nobody offered aid. No one did anything. So Chanel lay there on his bedroom floor for hours. Once he and his roommates discussed the events of that morning with the lawyer, the lawyer reportedly called the police, telling cops they could find a dead body in his room.

Anngelle Wood: 25:28

Chanelle was murdered by William C Palmer. He used the gay panic defense or, in this case, the trans panic defense, which, according to the American Bar Association, is to seek to partially or completely excuse crimes such as murder and assault on the grounds that the victim's sexual orientation or gender identity is to blame for the defendant's violent reaction, and you may be surprised to know that Massachusetts remains the only New England state that does not prohibit the use of legal defenses claiming the victim's sexual orientation and or gender identity contributed to the defendant's actions. William C Palmer prayed on trans women. Witnesses testified at trial that he frequented bars in the gay scene to pick them up. To clarify. Okay, two consenting adults. He's into trans women. Lots of people are, but he used the trans panic defense to get out of murder. Oh, and he also said that cocaine was to blame. So which was it? When the medical examiner testified, this was the only way Chanelle could speak through the massive injuries to her body. She did have cocaine in her system, but far too low of an amount to have contributed to her death.

Anngelle Wood: 26:54

The M. E. told the jury that she was throttled in quotes for at least eight minutes. The Boston Globe referred to her as he again and again Her face was beaten and something was stuffed down her throat betting it was believed. Gabrielle Pickett testified that she and her sister met Palmer at the Playland Cafe the night of the murder. Palmer gave them a ride to their place in Chelsea where they snorted a cocaine. One report suggested he was hoping for sex with both women. It did not happen. Chanelle left with him for water town. In a tape statement to the police, palmer said he put his hand over her mouth and grabbed her throat, but Chanel bit his finger. Palmer gave her what he called a quick jab to the jaw. She sat on her for about 10 minutes and then went to bed. Then Palmer gave a shrug with I don't know what happened and then suggested she overdosed on cocaine. Gabrielle had to identify Chanelle's body. She said her face was so badly beaten it looked like she had been beaten by more than one person. I believe one of the quotes was it looked like she got hit by a truck. Despite strong physical evidence against Palmer, he was convicted only of assault and battery and sentenced to two years in jail. Judge Robert A. Barton acknowledged the particularly vicious nature of the killing.

Anngelle Wood: 28:20

The LGBTQ plus community was incensed over the verdict, over the way the media wrote about transgender people, about how Chanelle was vilified and at fault for her own death, while the man who killed her was portrayed as an arraig Joe, an upstanding member of his community, and taken by a transsexual on the grift. Chanelle was just a Black transgender woman. Society chose to find no value in her. A Boston Herald front page story at the time described Palmer as a polite white-collar professional who reacted the only way any self-respecting red-blooded hetero dude guy would. All it said of the dead person was that she was a transsexual prostitute. Not even an ounce of compassion was shown to Chanelle Pickett, and trans activists believe that the jury was affected by their own prejudice and not the evidence in the case.

Anngelle Wood: 29:20

It is believed that Gabrielle Pickett died I have seen it mentioned in a number of places when is not known or how of a drug overdose or murder, it is not clear In 2003. She was lost after Chanelle died. I dug as deep as I could go and, if I'm even warm, there is a Gabrielle Pickett buried at the Hart Island project. That's New York City's 131 acre cemetery on Hart Island in the Bronx, where the city buries unclaimed and unidentified people. If it is Gabrielle, she died on March 24th 2003 at Montefiore Medical Center in the Bronx. She was 30 years old. The details, well, they do line up. I'll be right back.

Anngelle Wood: 30:10

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Anngelle Wood: 30:42

On Saturday, november 28th 1998, rita Hester spent part of the afternoon at one of her favorite hangouts the silhouette. This would be on my map of things to do when you are in Boston. Hit up some of the dive bars around town. The model is just up the street, another favorite hang for Rita. The silhouette earned Best Dive Bar by Boston Magazine and a now defunct, improper Bostonian. A favorite stop for locals, college students and a fair amount of passers through. It opened on Brighton Avenue in Austin in 1965. The warmth of its neon signs, the charm of its dark room, its pool table. Friend or foe can enjoy a cheap beer or two. The silhouette has had a resurgence, been booking rock shows thanks to iBookSings, and any silhouette die hard can get a hot dog a day for life. All you gotta do is get a tattoo that clearly represents the iconic dive. And may you never go hungry. Is there still free popcorn.

Anngelle Wood: 31:50

That morning Rita played racquet ball with her friend Brenda. They made a plan to hang out later that night to watch figure skating. The two best friends first met at Bun Raddies in the early 1990s where Brenda worked the bar. Brenda watched the reaction of the barflies when Rita walked in so she gave her an even warmer welcome. Weeks passed before they saw one another again, but they would become very close. Rita even spent the Thanksgiving holiday with Brenda's family just two days earlier, the first Thanksgiving that she had not been with her own family.

Anngelle Wood: 32:26

At four o'clock Rita called another friend, a transwoman who lived in Alston, who remained unnamed in this news story. Because she still felt unsafe, rita was headed to the silhouette, aka the sill. That friend had a little disco nap and headed out to meet up with Rita until she saw her street blocked off by police. She immediately knew something very bad had happened. Rita's friend Brenda does doff Rita hadn't shown up, but Brenda just thought Rita met someone at the sill and forgot to call her. It happened. She didn't give it a second thought. What she would find out about her dear friend was far more grim. A report states that Rita was last seen by friends at the silhouette about 5 pm.

Anngelle Wood: 33:20

Around 6 pm, someone entered her first floor apartment and attacked her Neighbors would call the police about a disturbance. What I have been able to piece together through various reports the call came in around 6 12 and police officers were dispatched seven minutes later. The neighbor would tell Rita's sister that they took a long time to enter her apartment when the back door was open. When they finally got to Rita, she was bloody and badly injured on the floor. She had been stabbed over 20 times in the chest, but she was alive. It was a gruesome scene. The phone had been ripped from the wall. A partial shoe print was seen in the bloody floor. It was not Rita's. There was blood everywhere. Rita fought for her life. She almost made it. It took an hour between the time the police were dispatched and when the ambulance took her to Beth Israel Hospital. She died of cardiac arrest.

Anngelle Wood: 34:26

Rita Hester was listed as a male by the name of John Doe, a former logo reporter. Kate Sosin filed the public records request in 2020, but the Suffolk County DA's office under Rachel Rollins denied the request, stating although this murder occurred in 1998, this case remains open today and is currently being investigated. Accordingly, the records sought fall within the investigatory exemption to the public records and the office denies the release dated March 3rd 2020. Unfortunately, the same reporter kept referring to the silhouette as the satellite in the piece they wrote for embassy news. We know there was no sign of forced entry at Rita's apartment, that the suspect or suspects fled through the back door.

Anngelle Wood: 35:21

It is not believed she walked in on a robbery. She was still wearing her jewelry and nothing was taken. Money and other valuables were left behind. Did she leave the silhouette with someone? She had boyfriends. Her main guy, as told by her friend Brenda, was named Bobby, a white guy with blonde hair. Bobby was around and then he wasn't. Nobody knows much about Bobby or where he went after Rita died and no one is certain what their relationship was. Rita was very private about that part of her life. Neighbors told Rita's sister, diana that they saw two white men leave Rita's building just after six o'clock. That night Was one Bobby, don't know.

Anngelle Wood: 36:11

The family was left to do the crime scene clean up themselves. Police do not do that. When the Hester family got into Rita's place three days after the police had searched it, they found a number of things that the police could have used as evidence. Rita's sister, diana, said the family found $400 in a vase that was overlooked by police. Rita's siblings and her best friend Brenda cleaned the apartment with the hope of sparing their mother, kathleen, of the violence her child endured Even at almost 35, you are still your mama's baby. Kathleen Hester was there during the cleaning up and she found a bloody sandal. Diana Hester told NBC News she didn't think the police did enough early in the investigation. As of three years ago, police are still investigating Rita's murder. Someone has gotten away with it for 25 years. Did you see something that late afternoon? What do you know? What did you hear? If you have any information on this case, please call 800-494-TIPS. It's Crime Stoppers Text, the word TIP-TIP to 27463, which spells out the word crime. Of course, this will all be posted at CrimeoftheChewisKindcom and in the show notes.

Anngelle Wood: 37:40

Boston media outlets like the Globe and the Herald Newspapers referred to Rita as a transvestite, as a man who sported long braids and preferred women's clothes, and as someone who was living in a parent double life. There was no double life for Rita. She often performed under the name Rial, but she was 100%. News papers used male pronouns even though everyone in the community had known Rita only as a woman for years. When transgender advocates protested this misreporting the Boston Phoenix, the rainbowiest flag-waving alternative newspaper, with its own LGBTQ radio show, their reporters scolded them for putting the paper under the political correctness microscope. This Rita Hester's murder being eclipsed by the transgender community's grammatical agenda, their headline asked. The same reporter, sarah McNott, made it a point to describe Rita's breasts and genitals. What is worse, the New England Gay and Lesbian newspaper Bay Windows, the gay paper no disrespect, that's how we knew it, the one we could expect to lead the way in reporting with sensitivity repeatedly used male pronouns and did name Rita throughout their writing. Bay Windows, the gay paper, doubled down and published sensationalizations, stereotypes about black, trans women and many mischaracterizations. Rumors were rampant about black, male and drugs, but nothing came of those things. Rita was so beloved by everyone who knew her, the things Bay Windows printed. It was the first time that many people who knew Rita even had heard her referred to in such a way. Others would come to learn about her being transgender.

Anngelle Wood: 39:37

I went in and read the Bay Windows reporting, which was definitely problematic for the paper of the LGBTQ plus community. In fact, when you go to BayWindowscom, the header reads serving New England's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities. They are not all grouped into one, and Sue O'Connell, who later became the co-publisher, is wonderful. We worked together at WFNX where Sue, along with Keith Orr Keith also delightful hosted one in ten, the only show of its kind on the radio at the time in Boston, focusing on issues relating to the LGBTQ plus community. So I was surprised at the tone and nature of the reporting. Bay Windows editor at the time, jeff Eperly, tripled down oh, and he heard it.

Anngelle Wood: 40:27

One letter entitled editorial insensitivity read in part first of all, if you are going to be the editor of a newspaper directed at the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community, you are going to stand on the cutting edge of social change, whether you like it or not. If you want to clutch your copy of the AP style book to your bosom and declare it your one true love, you'd be better off working for, say, the Boston Business Journal, better Homes and Gardens or even the South End News Boop. Oh, there are more just like that. This is happening at the very same time.

Anngelle Wood: 41:07

The world is reporting on the murder of Matthew Shepard a month earlier in Wyoming, a case driven by Matthew's sexuality as a motive. His murderers also tried with the gay panic defense. There was a difference in that reporting, though. The LGBTQ plus media began to recognize differences between the reporting on Matthew Shepard's case and the treatment given to the increase in transphobic violence. Rita Hester became a symbol for all trans people who were killed for failing to meet social expectations and gender norms. Slowly, things changed. In the early 2000s, the Associated Press developed new style guidelines for reporting on transgender people. Houston activist Monica Roberts attributes this change to Rita's case, which she calls the catalyst for the media's piecemeal evolution on trans issues. And today, with the rise of transgender visibility, many media outlets continue to make the same mistakes in reporting. How fucking hard is it?

Anngelle Wood: 42:16

The death of Rita Hester and her treatment inspired transgender activist Gwendolyn Ann Smith into action. Gwendolyn created the web project called Remembering Our Dead to honor transgender homicide victims. The following year they founded the Transgender Day of Remembrance, with marches honoring victims in Boston and San Francisco. The Trans Murder Monitoring Report has been released every year since 2008. Since the project began 15 years ago, they have recorded more than 4,600 deaths. There's more data in the show notes at CrimeoftheTrueIsKindcom. Another day of remembrance T-Door is Monday, november 20. My guest, mallory Jenna Robinson, a transgender and HIV advocate based in Los Angeles, the host of a hateful homicide podcast and founder and instructor for Trans Excellence Academy, where transgender empathy training is available. We can learn, support, collaborate and advocate. This is our conversation. You are yourself a podcaster. Let's talk a little bit about how you decided to bring this to the masses via your own podcast. A hateful homicide.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 43:56

A hateful homicide, was created back in 2021. It was launched on T-Door, which is Trans Day of Visibility, and that is March 31 of every year. As a transgender and HIV healthcare advocate, not only of the lived experience but also the professional experience, I would connect with community members throughout Los Angeles County regarding violence and murders and the fact that there was a lot of misgendering and misrepresentation, and a lot of them were like you know, ms Mallory, can you? You know like we just wish someone would represent our cases accurately and, though they never like, pushed it for me to do it, I just felt this instant calling and Jill, I was like you know this, this needs, this needs to be told accurately and correctly and give victims a voice.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 44:41

And so you know, on March 31, 2021, I launched the first episode and I literally like, launched it from my phone, spoken to it and did the first episode. Fortunately, it was very well received and it has been well received. So now we're in season five and just continue to grow and glow, and it's the only podcast that focuses on the trans community, from our trans, transgender community, non-binary intersex and two-spirit communities, and we cover cases not only in the United States but also abroad.

Anngelle Wood: 45:12

So I've been doing a great amount of research on a woman named Rita Hester who was living her life full on as a trans woman in the city of Boston in the rock and roll community which is my world and I. I never met Rita she was killed in 1998, but I know a lot of people who knew Rita and you know we always talk about when someone passes, like they lit up a room and they were. She did all of those things Like that was who she was.

Anngelle Wood: 45:51

Yes, she was, and her murder is unsolved all these years later. And we know that Rita has an instrumental part in what trans remembrance day is. And then, in researching Rita's case, I learned about a woman named Chanel Pickett and, oh my, that was a whole separate can of worms rabbit hole that I got into. So I learned a lot about these two women who are from my area, boston area, and all of the things that I found out I knew, but the way that their cases were represented was so dehumanizing. Male pronouns never gave them the respect at all and friends would say this wasn't a double life. This wasn't them secretly doing this. This is how they lived all the time, and Chanel and her twin sister, gabrielle twins, both came out as transgender to their mom. They were probably in their early teens and their mom was as, unfortunately, a lot of parents are didn't know what to do about it.

Anngelle Wood: 47:08

And what I have found in my research is that so many of the public really all of the publications, including the Boston publication that is part of the LGBTQ plus community at the time certainly our language has changed since then. It was the gay paper, right, but even Bay windows, and I'm okay calling them out because this was a long time ago when they really have had a lot of room to improve. But even a newspaper that served this community was defending the language that they used and Rita's case, making up rumors about this woman, none of which they could actually prove that she was doing any of these things. She was living a life. Are we doing better? Because this is so disappointing to read these stories about two of so many other women and folks like them.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 48:01

And that's a really good point.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 48:03

I would honestly respond and say we have done a lot better, for sure, in terms of our messaging, in terms of, like, reclaiming language, in terms of making sure that, like, our trans community members are being accurately identified in the media, especially in terms of contemporary, like modern times.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 48:19

I'm willing that there is now there's this concern, which I see both ends, but one of the things that has been especially in Los Angeles County within the past couple of years has been, if a trans woman particularly, or a trans man, has been murdered, they have been referred to just as a man or a woman, and so, then again, we're still losing that messaging of the specific gender identity.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 48:45

And, of course, while we're still grateful for that inclusive language and just seeing people as people, we wanna also understand that these particular victims are not of the cisgendered experience, right, these are not cisgendered individuals who have been murdered by partners, or missing or, you know, unsolved cases. These are people of the trans community and so we need to understand that there is a different journey and acknowledge that and tell that story. So, while there is this inclusiveness of using man and woman at binary language to represent our trans folks, it's still almost like this fear of saying the word trans. Yeah, you know, cause we're starting to see a lot of that in schools. Right, don't say gay, don't say trans.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 49:20

We're seeing what people are like okay, well, we wanna be inclusive, so we won't say trans, but we'll still just say man and woman, but then we're still losing that messaging. There is still a lot of work to go, Unfortunately. Back in 1995, when Chanel Pickett was murdered and we still don't even know what happened to Gabrielle, there's been rumors that she was murdered, or either she just like is, you know, underground, you know but in my heart.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 49:40

I do think that she was too married and she met with a hateful homicide as well. And you know just my spirit of spirits. I just a lot of times we know so I mean a lot of missing. Folks won't typically stay missing, especially when you have people who really care for you just would not wanna do that to your lover ones and her losing her sister. I just couldn't imagine her like having her loved ones constantly wonder what happened to her so I do think.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 50:02

Unfortunately, like a lot of our cases, these crimes happen and we just don't know what happened, unless someone speaks up and says something. But Chanel Pickett's case specifically it's interesting that you mentioned her, because her date it's interesting. Rita Hester, it's how T-Dor started. But, Chanel's death date is actually how we.

Anngelle Wood: 50:22

That's right.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 50:23

You see that. So it's. Chanel died on November 20th of 1995. And Rita Hester was murdered on November 28th. But we associate T-Dor with that November 20th, which aligns with Chanel Pickett. But again, that was lost with Chanel, which it's interesting enough because she was on national television as well as her sister, both right, so they were known and everything. So I do think there was this effort to kind of find a balance between Chanel and Rita's cases by putting that November 20th but acknowledging that Rita's death was kind of like that straw that broke the camel's back, especially because, her's remains on Chanel's was was.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 50:58

Unfortunately, it was soft, but the perpetrator, a cis white man who strangled her to death, just did not and we won't even say his name but just didn't feel the need to get it. Unfortunately, justice had in her favor. So I think that's also my I don't know the reason to honor her.

Anngelle Wood: 51:13

When we talk about that case. I'm sure he's probably still alive and I've tried to find out whether that person is still alive, just out of curiosity. What is your life like since you got away with murder? But that person, like so many others and we saw it with a highly publicized case of Matthew Shepard, whose anniversary was very recent, in October Rita's murder was a month after Matthew Shepard. So the height of the media frenzy about these, the subject matter, it was like at 11 or you know, 15, right. And we see that in Matthew's case.

Anngelle Wood: 51:53

I know the perpetrators of Matthew's case tried the gay panic defense. I think the state of Wyoming, to their credit, said we don't accept that. And I know that the person who murdered Chanel also tried the trans panic defense, as we can call it, and got away with that in not so many words. I realized that the state that I live in, in Massachusetts they still allow that, the only state in New England that allows it. They don't. I don't think they have laws Maybe you can help me with this language. I don't think a lot of states have laws against it. They just don't allow it.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 52:32

That is correct, absolutely in jail.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 52:34

You know, unfortunately there is not a lot of legislation that has been put into place to still uphold, you know, hate crimes, hate violence and incidents especially towards specific community members, especially those of the gender identity community members.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 52:48

So we see one of the few states still to this day, I would say, that has those protections is Colorado, and we saw the first case of like really pinpoint. That was in 2009,. But there was hateful homicide of Angie Zapata, a 19 year old trans Latina woman, and that guy as well he was the only one still a few of them were he was convicted of a hate crime. And there was another one in 2015 of a white trans woman as well. She was 17 years old and it was a Latin King case and it was on one of my episodes and her case in Mississippi was one of those where they were also pushing for that hate crime but still had that backlash. She pushed like well, it's not really on the books. So there's been these like prosecutors who have tried to like find these loopholes and try to go through the federal means as well, but then still get a lot of that state pushback. So it's very common in jail, unfortunately.

Anngelle Wood: 53:36

Here we are really days away. As you and I are speaking, mallory, we're days away from another transgender remembrance day. How can we advocate? So I say this to people we have a lot of armchair advocates, which, it's okay, I'll take it how can we be allies and or both, advocates for the community If we can't go out in person and put our advocacy into action? What are some of the things that we can tell people or share with people that they can do, even some of the smallest gestures, but can be really effective?

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 54:16

That's a great question, angel. You know, there are several ways that you can always offer your support. We have those who are gonna be like our allies, you know, those who are gonna always, like you know, support us from afar. But we also have our accomplices, and those are kind of like our grassroots front lines are out there marching, picketing, protesting, speaking up.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 54:34

So there's always different levels of like. Showing up looks like. You know, one of the most beautiful things that people can do is offer a kind word and, for example, if you are a social media user, feel free to go and check out some people of the trans experiences, tiktoks Instagram. You never know, mallory, maybe you know they may need like a just 11 word and just say I'm here for you, I support you, you're seen, you're valuable. Just even commenting on a random stranger who is up the trans experiences profile can even touch them because they could be feeling so lonely. There's such a high suicide rate in jail.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 55:10

So those little, actions as well, also being willing to display graphics as well. Right, you know, having your pride flags, having those things around, being able to utilize statements like hi, my name is and my pronouns are showing that everyone will be affirming the need, people where they're at as well, all of those opportunities talking about a hateful homicide, you know, letting people know that this podcast exists, that there is a podcast for our trans community members.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 55:34

I had someone reach out to me up to trans experience and it was like I had no idea that this podcast existed, like I was looking into a case about Amanda Milan and then, like I saw that there was like an actual beautiful story told about her and that's like so those things to make sure that people know that, yes, there are people out here of the lived experience, but also allies and accomplices who are willing to say the names respectfully and correctly. Show support.

Anngelle Wood: 55:57

Are your plans for November 20th this year, Mallory?

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 56:02

It's interesting that you brought up, you know, matthew Shepard in terms of you know the correlation of the media representation and how there wasn't much for reader. It was inaccurate. And so I actually did a T-Door 25 in the city of West Hollywood, highlighting Chanel, highlighting Rita, so people can understand their names. Also, where I work at with the quality California and that organization that does like a lot of outreach and legislation, we're actually doing a special post tribute to Rita Hester for T-Door 25.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 56:31

I know technically, the day was actually launched in 1999, but I just you know Rita was murdered in 1998. So for me I cited as T-Door 25. So those are some things. One of the things that I did wanna add to really quickly and Jill was one of the cases that also gets lost to you is James Burr. So I'm gonna do a special hateful homicide which is coming out on November 20th and it's gonna be called 1998, the year of hate, and it's gonna discuss James Burr, who was murdered in September of 1998, matthew Shepherd, october of 1998, and Rita Hester, and we're gonna look at all their intersectionalities and how each case was. It's almost like a historiography, but then also delving back into like why that year in particular, 25 years ago, was there such a high prevalence of violence, even 25 years or, excuse me, 35 years after the March on Washington in 1963. So we're still seeing all this like violence that continues to happen in even 2023, we still see it. So, again going through that historiography. So those are some things to expect for November 20th. T-door.

Anngelle Wood: 57:28

Talk to me about, and this is something that I'm interested, even for myself. You have a I wanna get the proper language Founder and instructor of the Trans Excellence Academy, where you offer transgender empathy trainings. Yes, boy, we need that.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 57:48

Thank you so much. Yes, that is correct. So, after you know, meeting with the incredible community of Los Angeles and throughout the state of California, another comment that was given to me not only was the violence and lack of representation, but also the fact that medical providers as we go into our medical transitions right or even our educators there's still a lot of, as we know, injustices in the school systems for our youth and young people. So I was getting a lot of this feedback and focus groups and surveys and stuff and I was like how can I be the change that I wanna see? And, as a former teacher, I actually taught openly as a trans teacher from 2014 until 2019 in Jacksonville, florida. This was before don't say gay, this was before. You know, it's interesting. One of my brothers was like hey, do you think? Because you came in there openly teaching this trans and I don't know like ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. You know, like you know, you know, you know shit, some stuff up, girl. And now they put on.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 58:40

I was like don't say that you know, but you know, at the same time, I am honored to say that I did not have that pushback during my teaching years, but all of that compelled me to create transgender empathy trainings and that was launched in September of 2021. We presented at the National Line X Conference, Black Trans Advocacy Conference at Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors. So these are the people who are like the superintendents and the over public health, and so there was some pushback. You know, even in Los Angeles.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 59:08

You know you have people like we don't like the terms this gendered, but all of that was important to make sure that our community understands it. It's empathy, it's understanding. This language is important to make sure that we're connecting with all community members and we're willing to meet people who we're there at. So that's why I continue to do that as well.

Anngelle Wood: 59:23

How can we get folks involved in that who aren't in Los Angeles? Is it a hybrid presentation?

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 59:31

You got it absolutely. So I do have a website as well, and the website is linked to both a hateful homicide and transgender empathy trainings. So you can type in a hateful homicidenet, then I'll also send you the link as well too, and just so that way, if you wanna share it later you can post it up. But also that link does include a four slash trans empathy trainings. The trainings are hybrid.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 59:52

I'm glad to do remote trainings, especially for those who aren't in California. It's 500 an hour and that's just because for me as a Black trans woman of lived experience, I just wanna make sure that you know not only am I putting in my professional, you know standards and qualifications, but I'm also putting my lived experience too, which can also come from a place of vulnerability and emotionally draining. So I'm just making sure that you know, I'm making sure I'm being fair to everyone on the board of organizations. But absolutely, and the training is typically two hours, but you don't have to do the full two hours. You can certainly do one hour one month and then we can pick up on the second hour, you know another time if whatever is economically feasible for you and your organizations.

Anngelle Wood: 1:00:31

Fantastic. Thank you for your time. I will be out there on the 20th.

Anngelle Wood: 1:00:37

Rita Hester has this magnificent mural in Alston, near where she lived for a number of years.

Anngelle Wood: 1:00:45

It's incredible and I know how truly beloved she was, so to see her immortalized that way is pretty incredible, and I do wanna say this before we wrap that directly in relation to Rita's murder and the way that she and people like her were depicted in the media that organizations have sense prepared and released their own guides, particularly for journalists, for talking about folks in the community, and it's pretty impressive and I certainly will share it when everything goes up online.

Anngelle Wood: 1:01:22

They established this for journalists and I think probably some of the most pressing information on that is recognize how that person lived and how the people around them spoke of them. Once I discovered that, I felt a tiny bit better about the progress that we've been able to make, but I still find the language and I'm somebody who has worked in commercial radio for well over 20 years, more years than I care to mark We've all been guilty of this kind of language and for some of us it's because we didn't know better. But now we have opportunities to know better and now it's up to us to figure out what's next.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 1:02:09

Agreed, agreed and absolutely. What does that look like for you and Gell in terms of what's next for our community, in terms of just growing and glowing? And what does that look like for you?

Anngelle Wood: 1:02:21

Talking about it, not feeling like oh, if I talk about the LGBTQ plus community, am I going to offend somebody else? I'm not really too worried about offending someone who feels like they're more superior to other people, or people who are in this community are inferior to them. We're all human beings and we need to recognize one another in that way. But what I have found, first and foremost and I'm not that person that says I have a gay friend, I do have gay friends. I have a black friend, I do have black friends you have black friends until you have the experience of knowing someone and actually seeing how they live their lives and how they walk in those shoes, you may not fully realize what this kind of life is. It has not been an easy life for a lot of people. There are a lot of people in various parts of the country and the world that this is still a very difficult life. We need to have more compassion than that. There's a lot going on here. There's a lot at stake here. There's a lot of violence still.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 1:03:31

Absolutely no. Agree with you 100 percent. And that's what it's about. Right, compassion, empathy the growth mindset.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 1:03:38

Right, if we can get into that growth mindset and where we see like, okay, it's not about, like, a binary identity or it's not about, you know, a racial identity. It's about just seeing people as people and let them show up as they are and you know what they say. If it's not hurting anyone, you know why, why let it get to you. And also, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all, you know, just let people live with them and join their lives. Because I think the pandemic, if anything, should have taught us life.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 1:04:05

The pandemic affected each and every one of us. It did not have a specific group. It didn't have a specific, you know, gender identity, targeting everyone, anyone, all of us were, you know, shocked and scared. So I hope those kind of things that we have to look at, kind of the meaning of life, like these are, these are our wake up calls, right, like life is short, we all can be impacted by global pandemic. Y'all can be impacted by social distancing. These are things that we can all relate to, and so why not when, as these things are starting to lessen, let's come back into the world a little kinder. Let's come back into the world a little more empathetic and stop, you know, coming back into that same mindset of bigotry and ignorance and discrimination, because it's not getting us anywhere.

Anngelle Wood: 1:04:43

That's good advice, because we are rolling into the holiday season, where a fair amount of folks are going to have to be face to face with some of those people.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 1:04:53

Treat people the way you want to be treated. You know tis the season to be jolly, you know, I mean, I think the messaging is in everything that we do right, like I mean, it goes back to like. You know, tis the scene to be jolly, you know again like you asked what we can do.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 1:05:08

If you see someone who and again, we never want to assume anyone's identity or you know anyone's, you know truth. But if you see someone that maybe you know, you question if they are of the trans experience. You know, maybe they're looking for that same Christmas present as you. You know, maybe give a little grace, grace on Black Friday shopping. You know, be like okay, you know what, not because of pity or stuff, we're just showing a little jolliness in grace.

Anngelle Wood: 1:05:29

We wrapped it up very succinctly, mallory, let's give a little grace.

Mallery Jenna Robinson: 1:05:34

Thank you so much, my friend, and I appreciate your time and take care.

Anngelle Wood: 1:05:44

Thank you. Thank you Everything about Mallory Jenna Robinson, a hateful homicide, trans empathy, training and more. You can start at a homicide. net On the site for T-Door. And, remembering our dead, there is a Google Doc that I found containing the names of hundreds of people, 344 of which, 344 of which were from the United States, and what it shows is their name, their location, the date they died in their cause of death, all of whom were people who shared a transgender identity. Some are unnamed unnamed, some are listed as unknown man wearing a dress in Hollywood, California california, in 1991, died of multiple gunshot wounds. There's someone listed as unknown transsexual in Long Beach, California california, November 6th 2004,. And the names from Massachusetts Denise Puglisie, Brighton, Massachusetts, January 1st 1979. There's somebody listed as unknown person dressed in women's clothing that was murdered in Boston in 1979. Hart, charlestown, massachusetts, 1980. Monique Rogers, boston, Massachusetts, august 3rd 1986. Diane Carter, Boston, September 16th 1986. Deborah Forte, Haverhill, Massachusetts, May 15th 1995. Chanelle Pickett, Watertown, November 20th, 1995. Rita Huster, Boston, N ovember 28th 1998. Monique Thomas, Dorchester, September 11th, 1998. Lisa Daniels, Dorchester, September 17th, 2005.

Anngelle Wood: 1:07:53

Now the information can't be completely accurate. There are many factors at play. The most obvious is how that murder has been reported. Is a transgender woman being listed as a male John Doe, like Rita Hester was. It's all very troubling but, like Mallery said, couldn't we just give some grace? Thank you for listening.

Anngelle Wood: 1:08:21

My name is Anngelle Wood. This is Crime of the Truest Kind online at crimeofthetruestkind. com. Follow the show at Crime of the Truest Kind. Yes, I love five-star reviews. They are my favorite. Drop a tip in the jar I got a lot of dogs. Apparently I might need to buy a new pair of headphones because Poppy ate the cord.

Anngelle Wood: 1:08:45

Support the show. Patreon. com. Four tiers starting at $1. Thank you to our brand new Patreon supporters Wicked Cool, Mac Duncan and Roberta, Solid Gold, devin, pam Kay, debra Superstars, lisa McColgan, rhiannon DevilDog. I got your email. I can't recall if I sent you a response yet. Thank you everyone. I did send out a couple rounds of thank you packages for new patrons and people who requested some merch, so I hope you got them. Happy Thanksgiving. My wish for you is that you get to spend the holiday with the people you most want to spend it with. Last thing, before I go by the time I speak to you again, I should know the date or dates to our next live events. I got live video feed from the show at Off Cabot. I have a plan for it, so check your Patreon. I haven't watched it yet. I might not watch it. Alright, I must be going. Take care of yourselves and lock your goddamn doors.